Rona Lewis and Jeffrey Hansler sit down with retired Long Beach Police Commander Greg Schirmer, also known as ‘Fab’ by Jeffrey and his other Orange County Bucks rugby mates.

Yes. They’ve literally tackled leadership together.

Greg’s path isn’t linear - it’s cinematic. Arts student. Business thinker. Then, just before turning 30, he makes the dramatic life pivot and joins the Long Beach Police Department, fulfilling a childhood dream inspired by his father and a mentor. He builds a career navigating high-conflict rooms where emotions run hotter than Southern California asphalt in August.

And when he retired? No rocking chair. No nostalgia tour. He pivots again — into consulting, bringing real-world de-escalation, negotiation, and leadership training into boardrooms and the teams he coaches. While there are no sirens, there’s still plenty of healthy human tension to manage.

Greg teaches something most leaders desperately need: emotional fitness. Not fluffy empathy. Not buzzword “strategic” empathy. The real kind. The kind that regulates a room because you’ve regulated yourself first.

Because here’s the truth bomb from this episode:

People don’t always want to win. They want to feel heard. They want to be seen.

Whether it’s a volatile public encounter or a volatile earnings call, the principle is the same — if you’re not steady, no one around you will be either. Command presence isn’t volume. It’s regulation.

And yes, they talk rugby. Because nothing says “de-escalation expert” like 80 minutes of structured collision followed by a handshake. Rugby, like leadership, is intensity without hatred. Hit hard. Respect harder.

Greg also unpacks the shift from public service to private sector — different metrics, different language, same fundamental driver: human behavior determines outcomes. The skills that kept him safe and effective as an officer are the same ones helping executives navigate conflict without lighting metaphorical squad cars on fire.

If you care about leadership under pressure, negotiation without ego, emotional intelligence that actually works, or how to pivot careers without losing your identity, this one’s worth the click.

No sirens. No platitudes. Just hard-earned insight with a little rugby grit. And we love your grit so share, subscribe, like, and follow.

If this episode sparks something in you, here are others that continue the leadership conversation:

Episode 206: The Missing Link Between What You Mean and Deliver is Congruency

• https://open.spotify.com/show/7kQz…

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 207: Hypocrisy Hunted Hilariously

• https://open.spotify.com/show/7kQz…

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 208: Listen in with Dr. Laura – Or Don’t

• https://open.spotify.com/show/7kQz…

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 204: The Great Exhaustion

• https://open.spotify.com/show/7kQz…

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Grab your boxing gloves. And maybe a helmet.

In Episode 210 of Biz-Souls, Rona Lewis and Jeffrey Hansler step into the leadership ring for a knockout, drag-down discussion about creating change — which sounds noble until you actually try to do it.

Rona opens strong, framing the episode around a leadership system inspired by some of the big-brain thinking you’ll find over at Big Think — you know, the kind of thinking where leadership is expansive, inclusive, visionary, and possibly accompanied by swelling orchestral music.

Jeffrey immediately responds with: “All roses and butterfly’s until you add in people!”

Because here’s the thing. Creating change sounds fantastic on a whiteboard. It’s inspiring in a keynote. It looks terrific in a LinkedIn post. And then reality shows up.

Suddenly, your brilliant strategy meets passive and full contact resistance, and your “clear vision” succumbs to cataracts while your town hall meeting becomes the ambush scene in Mel Gibson’s Braveheart.

Rona wants to stay with the system. Jeffrey wants to discuss the pitfalls. Rona wants to highlight the steps. Jeffrey wants to point out the potholes. Rona adds a thought about politics, and Jeffrey redirects back to the topic. Rona quips, “You brought it up.”

It’s leadership ping-pong at its finest, which illustrates reality, because leadership without sarcasm is just… a staff meeting.

And here’s where it gets interesting. Rona and Jeffrey don’t just spar about the problems. They dig into the tension that lives inside leadership:

• Vision vs. execution

• Inspiration vs. implementation

• Alignment vs. “Why are we doing this again?”

And the age-old question: Is resistance stupidity… or just fear wearing a tie? And then Rona brings in something leaders often forget when they’re busy drafting strategic roadmaps: play. Yes. Play.

Not mandatory fun. No trust falls. Not that awkward icebreaker where you describe yourself as a kitchen appliance. Real play. The kind that allows teams to experiment without feeling like they’re one mistake away from career extinction.

This episode is funny. It’s sharp. It’s slightly sarcastic. And it’s painfully real for anyone who has ever tried to lead human beings who insist on having opinions.

If you’ve ever thought, “Why is this so hard?” This episode is for you. Put up your gloves, bring bandages, and have a sense of humor.

Here are other episodes which might interest you:

Episode 139: Play for Better Living!

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5EOyx44QYvEkrzE6Fg6fA8

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdUd8cU1Xg

Episode 137: Just Say No! Maybe.

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5O9pVnMLtrVRHfSrkE3dZn

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ffpbkA2n8

Episode 136: Mature Gnome with Ego

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SrTBRzWZ9MbhycJw5Nkwv

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl6sKzNUWTo

Episode 125: How to Retrain Your Brain

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6Sl8zVZB6Jx5DMHg8lN9aH

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA4P9HvbKVI

And as always, like, share, subscribe, and follow so we can stay connected.

BTW - The article "The six elements of successful leadership system" by Scott J. Allen, Ph.D & David Day

In this information-packed (and mind-expanding) episode of Biz-Souls, your ever-curious co-hosts Rona Lewis and Jeffrey Hansler sit down with the visionary Aaron Windrum to unpack the present and future of HR and Artificial Intelligence.

And no, this is not another “AI is coming for your job” doomcast. Aaron flips the script.

While headlines scream layoffs and robots, he sees something different: more jobs. Better jobs. Higher-value jobs.

The twist? They won’t look like the ones you have now.

Organizations today are experimenting, piloting, and integrating. AI is screening resumes, predicting turnover, personalizing learning, automating onboarding, and whispering sweet data-driven insights into the ears of HR leaders.

Translation? The paperwork is shrinking. The people-work is expanding.

Aaron explains how AI is moving HR from compliance cop to culture catalyst. Instead of drowning in forms and spreadsheets, HR professionals are increasingly freed up to focus on coaching, strategy, connection, and leadership development.

The dark side?

Well… that’s the part we’re still negotiating as a society.

Aaron doesn’t sugarcoat it. He discusses both the promise and the peril — and why ethical leadership will matter more than ever.

One of the juiciest conversations? The growing disconnects between traditional education and what organizations actually need.

Degrees alone aren’t the golden ticket anymore. Skills are.

The future belongs to lifelong learners, skill-stackers, and curious minds. Your individual responsibility (and pleasure!) will be continuous learning.

Aaron’s journey alone is worth the listen. He once planned to become a veterinarian. Instead, he became the youngest manager worldwide for KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken). From there? Listen in and find out!

Let’s just say, he’s living proof that careers are rarely straight lines — they’re more like beautifully chaotic scribbles with purpose.

The future of HR isn’t about less humanity — it’s about elevating it.

Listen to More Biz-Souls Episodes:

Episode 206: The Missing Link Between What You Mean and Deliver is Congruency

• https://open.spotify.com/show/5lq9xyzBizSouls

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 204: The Great Exhaustion

• https://open.spotify.com/show/5lq9xyzBizSouls

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 202: Persuasion, Negotiation & Sales in a Chaotic World

• https://open.spotify.com/show/5lq9xyzBizSouls

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

If you want to understand where HR is going and how AI is reshaping organizations, this episode is for you.

Listen in. Learn up. Level up. And as always, like, subscribe, share, and comment.

Because even in an AI-driven future, engagement is still very human.