Rona Lewis and Jeffrey Hansler sit down with retired Long Beach Police Commander Greg Schirmer, also known as ‘Fab’ by Jeffrey and his other Orange County Bucks rugby mates.

Yes. They’ve literally tackled leadership together.

Greg’s path isn’t linear - it’s cinematic. Arts student. Business thinker. Then, just before turning 30, he makes the dramatic life pivot and joins the Long Beach Police Department, fulfilling a childhood dream inspired by his father and a mentor. He builds a career navigating high-conflict rooms where emotions run hotter than Southern California asphalt in August.

And when he retired? No rocking chair. No nostalgia tour. He pivots again — into consulting, bringing real-world de-escalation, negotiation, and leadership training into boardrooms and the teams he coaches. While there are no sirens, there’s still plenty of healthy human tension to manage.

Greg teaches something most leaders desperately need: emotional fitness. Not fluffy empathy. Not buzzword “strategic” empathy. The real kind. The kind that regulates a room because you’ve regulated yourself first.

Because here’s the truth bomb from this episode:

People don’t always want to win. They want to feel heard. They want to be seen.

Whether it’s a volatile public encounter or a volatile earnings call, the principle is the same — if you’re not steady, no one around you will be either. Command presence isn’t volume. It’s regulation.

And yes, they talk rugby. Because nothing says “de-escalation expert” like 80 minutes of structured collision followed by a handshake. Rugby, like leadership, is intensity without hatred. Hit hard. Respect harder.

Greg also unpacks the shift from public service to private sector — different metrics, different language, same fundamental driver: human behavior determines outcomes. The skills that kept him safe and effective as an officer are the same ones helping executives navigate conflict without lighting metaphorical squad cars on fire.

If you care about leadership under pressure, negotiation without ego, emotional intelligence that actually works, or how to pivot careers without losing your identity, this one’s worth the click.

No sirens. No platitudes. Just hard-earned insight with a little rugby grit. And we love your grit so share, subscribe, like, and follow.

If this episode sparks something in you, here are others that continue the leadership conversation:

Episode 206: The Missing Link Between What You Mean and Deliver is Congruency

• https://open.spotify.com/show/7kQz…

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 207: Hypocrisy Hunted Hilariously

• https://open.spotify.com/show/7kQz…

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 208: Listen in with Dr. Laura – Or Don’t

• https://open.spotify.com/show/7kQz…

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 204: The Great Exhaustion

• https://open.spotify.com/show/7kQz…

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast