We all find our own unique way into the practice of East Asian medicine.

It’s part luck, part dogged curiosity and persistence, and sometimes a bit of fate.

In this conversation with Holly Guzman, we wander through her circuitous route into the medicine—from knocking on the door of the Chinese embassy in Kabul, to hanging out at a bookstore in San Francisco, waiting to see who might pick up the one English book on acupuncture. Along the way she crossed paths with some remarkable teachers, witnessed extraordinary ways acupuncture was used in China, and learned lessons about herbs, storytelling, and clinical responsibility that shaped the practice she has today.

Listen into this discussion as we explore her early travels to China in the late 1970s, what it was like to practice before acupuncture was legal, and the powerful influence of teachers like Miriam Lee and Yat Kee Lai. Holly also reflects on herbal training that emphasized curiosity over categories, the role of storytelling in clinical work, and how imagination opens the door to new possibilities in medicine.

Holly reminds us that this medicine didn’t arrive fully formed—it grew through the curiosity, audacity, and persistence of practitioners who were willing to explore what was possible.