In this episode, we dive into the realities of CRO (Conversion Rate Optimization) today — from AI anxiety to experimentation culture and how teams should actually be structured.

We start with a surprisingly philosophical take on photography and overthinking, then quickly shift into what’s really happening in the CRO and AI space right now.

We discuss:

* Why AI might be making everything look the same

* The growing fear (and noise) around AI in CRO

* How to structure CRO teams: centralized vs hybrid vs embedded

* Why experimentation still struggles with a “nice-to-have” perception

* What actually builds a strong experimentation culture

* How individual contributors can influence culture without authority

* And how to position CRO as a true growth engine, not just testing

If you work in growth, product, or experimentation, this is a candid look at what’s changing and what actually matters.

Chapters

0:00 – Photography, overthinking, and creative process1:26 – Back to CRO: what’s happening in the industry2:07 – AI concerns and job market anxiety2:45 – The “everything looks the same” AI problem4:00 – Too many AI tools, no real differentiation5:38 – What people are really asking about AI6:23 – AI fear vs reality (and layoffs)7:08 – Fear-mongering vs signal8:00 – Fear and decision-making9:00 – CRO team structures: centralized, hybrid, embedded9:31 – Why centralized works early10:08 – When to move to hybrid10:29 – Why embedded is hard11:04 – The role of leadership buy-in12:13 – Why experimentation gets cut first13:00 – CRO’s “nice-to-have” branding problem14:00 – Why CRO is easy to underestimate15:45 – Future-proofing: combine CRO with other skills16:54 – Building experimentation culture (the “laundry” analogy)18:19 – How to destroy experimentation culture19:23 – Why authority and buy-in matter20:25 – How ICs can influence culture21:34 – Reframing experimentation as empowerment23:09 – Becoming a catalyst across teams24:46 – Confidence and presence in CRO roles25:59 – CRO vs Growth: what’s the difference?27:24 – Where CRO fits inside growth teams28:02 – Moving CRO upstream into systems thinking29:00 – Closing thoughts