Frank Salzgeber (sometimes called the "Father of ESA BIC") was initially handed a broken ESA tech transfer programme with a billion euros unaccounted for and told to fix it. Nobody asked him to build an incubator. He just had enough freedom and used it.

What followed was 19 years inside ESA watching the European space startup scene grow from nothing — Isar Aerospace, Leaf Space, ClearSpace - watching them go from founders with a crazy idea to some of the most recognised names in European New Space industry. Then Saudi Arabia called, and he left to do it all over again from scratch in the Middle East.

In this episode, Frank breaks down how ESA BIC actually works, how to get a yes, what kills most space startups before they ever get there, and what Europe needs to urgently fix before it gets left behind completely.

Get in touch with Frank:

https://sa.linkedin.com/in/frank-salzgeber

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Chapters:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:22) What Is ESA BIC and Why It Exists

(03:02) How to Apply to ESA BIC Today

(12:09) What Steve Jobs Taught Frank About Branding, Hiring, and Building Teams

(16:11) Why Branding Matters More Than Most Founders Think

(19:31) What Running Your Own Startup Teaches You That Nothing Else Can

(25:15) The Right Balance Between Startup Speed and Institutional Structure

(28:08) How Frank Flew Under the Radar to Launch ESA BIC

(33:42) The ESA BIC Selection Process: Three Things That Make Frank Say Yes

(40:35) Common Thread Between the Biggest Successes and Failures

(44:03) What ESA BIC Could Have Done Better and What Founders Should Push For

(46:30) is When to Use Soft Funding vs Equity-Based Funding

(56:49) Most Undervalued Space Opportunity Right Now

(57:35) Why Promising Space Companies Die and How Founders Can Avoid It

(58:06) Europe vs Middle East: Where to Base Your Space Company

(58:58) The Difference Between a Fundable Idea and a Research Project

(01:02:53) The Most Important Lesson for Building a Space Company in 2026

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You will learn:

- What Frank took from his years at Apple that he applied in building ESA BIC

- The 3 things that get you a yes from ESA BIC

- How Frank convinced ESA to fund something they'd never done before

- The one thing Frank looks for in a pitch that will never show up in your deck

- Why your tech is never the problem and what actually kills startups

- The exact line between a fundable space idea and a research project

- Why Frank thinks ESA BIC's 75% startup survival rate is actually a bad sign

- The most undervalued space market opportunity right now

Amin Chabi (founder of Lúnasa Space) didn't set out to build a company. He graduated with a master's in space and astronautics, COVID hit, nobody was hiring — and starting alone was the only option left. What he stumbled into was one of the most overlooked crises in space: thousands of dead satellites cluttering orbit, threatening the GPS, banking, internet and telecom infrastructure the entire modern world depends on.

In this episode, Amin shares how Lunasa went from a blank incorporation form to a full acquisition by Infinite Orbit in just five years, what it actually takes to build rendezvous and docking technology that enables satellites to be serviced in orbit, and the exact blueprint he'd follow to make a European space startup acquirable as fast as possible.

Get in touch with Amin:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/aminchabi/

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Chapters:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:34) Who Is the Founder and What Does Lunasa Space Do

(04:18) The Space Fan Who Dropped Out at 16 to Support His Family

(08:33) How COVID Killed His Job Hunt and Forced Him to Start a Company

(17:09) Surviving the First Months With No Funding and No Safety Net

(20:00) Why Storytelling and Marketing Matter More Than Engineers Think

(26:22) How He Hired a Full Team Using LinkedIn Cold Messages

(29:13) Landing the First Public Partnership and Getting on the Radar

(38:24) The Right Way to Think About Fundraising in Deep Tech

(41:32) Getting the R&D Grant That Broke the Chicken-and-Egg Problem

(46:12) Building the Full Tech Stack In-House From Scratch

(01:12:07) The Acquisition by Infinite Orbits and Why He Said Yes

(01:19:00) What Actually Made Lúnasa Acquirable

(01:24:30) Post-Acquisition Integration - What Happens Now

(01:27:58) Quick Fire Round and Final Advice for Founders

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You will learn:

- How Amin got his first £10,000

- Why space is one of the most underrated industries when it comes to marketing, and what Amin did differently

- Why he deliberately avoided raising too much private capital

- How he built his entire network from scratch as a solo founder who knew nobody in the industry

- Why in-orbit manufacturing is the most overrated bet in space right now

- What Europe gets catastrophically wrong about building space companies

- What Infinite Orbits actually saw in Lúnasa that made them want to buy it

- The exact blueprint Amin would follow to make a European space startup acquirable as fast as possible

Kenneth Richard Geipel (co-founder of Robotto) started his career not in a lab or a startup — but in the Danish Armed Forces, where he served three combat deployments. When he left the military, he went back to university to study robotics. His thesis project? A drone to deliver pizza from 500 meters away, because he and his classmates were too lazy to walk.

What nobody expected is what happened next. A summer of record wildfires across Europe pulled that pizza drone into something more serious — autonomous wildfire detection software built with real firefighters in the field. Then COVID hit, nearly killing the company four days before their first major demo abroad. Then in 2022, a phone call from a former fellow veteran whose wife was Ukrainian changed everything. Kenneth had spent years turning down requests to weaponize his technology — but when a fellow soldier asks for help, you say yes.

In this episode, Kenneth shares how Robotto went from a pizza drone thesis to deploying GPS-free autonomous software on Ukrainian frontlines daily, how they got selected for NATO's DIANA accelerator out of 3,500 applicants across 24 nations, and why he thinks the entire European defence industry is getting one thing catastrophically wrong.

Get in touch with Kenneth:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenneth-richard-geipel-081309186/

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Chapters:

(00:00) Introduction

(00:33) Who Is Kenneth and What Does Robotto Do

(01:37) Why a Soldier Became a Robotics Founder

(03:50) What Deployments Taught Him That No Startup Book Will

(08:27) The Pizza Drone Thesis That Started Everything

(09:18) Pivoting from Pizza to Wildfire Detection

(10:48) How Two Students Got a Meeting With a Government Agency

(11:59) Incorporating Robotto — With Just a POC and Two Papers

(16:33) COVID Hits Four Days Before Their First Major Demo

(24:15) Fundraising After Near-Bankruptcy — and Why Radical Honesty Won

(29:05) The Phone Call From a Veteran That Pulled Them Into Defence

(31:17) The Ethical Conversations They Had Before Saying Yes

(33:17) How They Got Their First Ukrainian Partner and Built in Two Weeks

(35:44) Tracking Elephants in Thailand and Fighting Fires — at the Same Time

(41:23) How Product Iteration Works When Your Customer Is on the Frontline

(47:21) How Civilians Get It Catastrophically Wrong Selling to Military

(49:49) What NATO's DIANA Gives You That Money Can't Buy

(51:02) Robotto UA — Planting a Flag in Ukraine

(54:25) Is the Future of War Fully Autonomous?

(57:50) The Most Overrated Thing in the Drone Industry Right Now

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You will learn:

- Why building with end users is non-negotiable in defence — and what happens when you don't

- How to get your first meeting with a government agency when you have nothing but a thesis and stubbornness

- Why nearly going bankrupt made Kenneth a better fundraiser and what he told investors that most founders never would

- How Robotto built and shipped their first frontline prototype in 2 weeks — and what brutal feedback from Ukrainian soldiers actually sounds like

- Why civilians get it catastrophically wrong when they try to sell to the military

- How to find the non-obvious accelerator programs you actually qualify for

- What NATO's DIANA programme gives you that money simply cannot buy — and what it doesn't

- Why Kenneth voluntarily gave up his CEO title — and why most founders should think harder about theirs

- Why AI is the most overrated word in the drone industry right now

- What Kenneth would do differently in the first 12 months if he started Robotto again tomorrow

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Follow Martin Majercin on X:

https://www.x.com/monsfrost

Follow Martin Majercin on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/monsfrost/

Follow Robotto on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/company/robottoai/